News / National
'If Mugabe forces an election he will have a reply of 2008' - Simba Makoni
18 Mar 2012 at 04:21hrs | Views
Dr Simba Makoni (SM) interview with The Herald's senior reporter Fortious Nhambura (FN).
FN: Dr Makoni, you remain the interim president of Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn party without an executive. Your critics are saying the party was stillborn?
SM: We are still building the party Mava-mbo/Kusile/Dawn, to make it a broad-based national political organisation, with strong membership and strong structures.
FN: Still structuring the party since 2008?
SM: I think we want to correct facts first. Mavambo, Kusile Dawn the party was formerly launched on July 1, 2009, so I could not have announced an executive in 2008. When I contested the presidential elections in 2008 I did so as an independent candidate and there were volunteers who supported my campaign as an independent. There were other independent candidates who also stood under our banner in council elections and for Parliament and for Senate.
FN: The MKD party was formed in 2009 and seems to have been quiet save for few messages from its president recently when there is talk of elections. Is MKD not one of those 'election parties', that play spoiler?
SM: I told you we launched the party in 2009 and have been rebuilding. If you go around the suburbs of Harare, to Masvingo and Gweru you will find MKD party structures. We have activities going on there about programmes of our party, and its constitution, some of the policies and principles I summarised about our stance of equality, equity and women participating in nation building.
I know there are certain media organisations that choose to ignore our existence and then come to make allegations that we are resurfacing. We have been around and will continue to be around for very long long time to come. The party is growing.
FN: You left Zanu-PF at a time when you were touted as one of the possible successors to President Mugabe. Do you have any regrets of ever leaving the party? Are there chances of Dr Simba Makoni reuniting with his former comrades in the struggle?
SM: No, no, no! This is history now. It's nearly four years since I left Zanu-PF and that is behind me. It's a party of my history that I am proud to have participated in and made a contribution but I don't live in the past. We were in the struggle in Chimoio, we left there in 1979, Independence came in 1980, and in 2000 we had a multiparty election with new parties joining the Parliament. I left and I don't regret leaving.
FN: But you don't sound convincingly happy.
SM: I am happy that I left and am making my contribution on a new platform that is more forward-looking more even closer to the people and their yearning for freedom, for development and equality and that I am no longer shackled by the stale politics of Zanu-PF. Going back where? What is Zanu-PF? There is nothing to go back to.
FN: During your campaign in 2008 you promised the nation that some Zanu-PF and MDC bigwigs were in support of your decision and would soon follow. Four years down the line now and no one has.
SM: I had an interview with a Herald or Sunday Mail journalist in 2008 and I answered that question. The Herald please let us move to 2012, and let us deal with issues of today. When I announced that I was going to stand for presidency, I did not announce that there were bigwigs going to follow me. What I said then was and I can repeat it now; "There are many people in Zanu-PF who agree with me. At all membership and leadership of Zanu-PF, there are many people who agree with me. Even today there are many people in Zanu-PF who agree with me. There are many people in MDC then and now who agree with me. But there are even more people out there who are not in the MDC or Zanu-PF, who are not in any party, who agree with me. That is the constituency I am targeting. Those people who do not have a political home because they are disgusted with what is being done in Zanu-PF and they are unhappy with what is happening in the MDC. They would like a political home that offers servant leadership, equity and justice, competence, a system that is based on values that realises how important freedom is for each one of us. That's where MKD belongs, with the people.
FN: But how do we know, when they have remained silent?
SM: They are not courageous enough to stand for their views. They are there in the Politburo of Zanu-PF and (President) Mugabe knows it. They are there in the National Executive Council of MDC-T, (PM) Morgan Tsvangirai knows it. They will not come out and join my party because the objectives of being where they are will not be realised in MKD. There are many people in those parties who support what I stood for then and today, but they are cowards to come out.
FN: The GPA is in its third year and has been credited with improving the political and economic situation. What is your evaluation of the inclusive Government?
SM: A dismal failure. In short that is my evaluation of the inclusive Government. The GPA, the agreement itself has merits. If people wanted to implement the visions of the GPA our country wouldn't be where it is today. So the fault is not with the agreement, the fault is with the implementers of the agreement or the non-implementers of the agreement.
FN: But your critics will say you are bitter for having been left out of the GPA?
SM: I am not bitter about being left out of the GPA or the Government but am sad that people like me who could bring real change are not involved. It's people like me, not really saying, Simba Makoni, but if people like me were in the inclusive Government, Zimbabwe would be nine years ahead of what it is today. That hurts me, that saddens me, that pains me.
In fact I think I am better out of it because I would have more pain trying to work with people who are in Government now. People in the inclusive Government have no sense of public duty, no sense of justice and equity, it's everything about me, inini pachangu ndenga, what do I get. Hospitals have no medicine but people have fleets of (Mitsubishi) Pajeros and (Mercedes Benz) MLS. Government has been buying ministers cars every year for the past three years despite the problems in the health sector.
Just do the numbers, 31 ministers times E Class Mercs, and one four by four twin cab and Land Cruiser or Pajero station wagon. Compare that with what is needed at Harare Hospital to save lives. At the moment all the children who are going to school in Zimbabwe are using books that are supplied by donors through the Education Support Fund. But they can afford to buy themselves motorcars. So I am bitter that people who would make Zimbabwe better are out of the inclusive Government because of greedy people who want to take everything for themselves.
FN: MKD was left out of Copac (constitution making process) so what makes your party relevant to national governance?
SM: Again I am very saddened by the fact that we have decided to make a constitution making process a cash cow for a few people. If we were really committed to making a constitution for Zimbabwe, we could have done in six months with not more than 50 people using all the materials we already had at hand. We should have started with the 1999 draft, ask ourselves why it was rejected and then rectified those areas that caused the draft to be rejected.
New issues that could have emerged since 1999 could have been incorporated. We would have produced a new constitution in three months with 15 people but we created this jamboree so that members of Copac can have allowances of US$75 per day spending six, eight months doing so-called outreach, talking to people knowing exactly what we wanted.
Only recently you heard some of the GPA parties saying the Constitution is going to be negotiated, it's going to be the Kariba Draft, so why did we hoodwink the people into giving their views when we already knew what we wanted? It is deception. So I do not put much track in this process, as currently structured.
Zimbabwe can produce a very good Constitution, more economically, in a shorter space of time, without the antagonism of political party lines at every stage. But I can understand the decision it is selfishness. They are concerned about themselves, yavo inongoti pangu, pangu, iwe neni inhamo yedu tega.
FN: There are disagreements over when we can have elections, as MKD what is your take?
SM: Those who claim to be leaders of the country must make the country ready for the elections. I have two positions on the elections. The first one is that Zimbabwe is long overdue for elections because this inclusive Government is not working. So we need elections that can give us an authority that draws its mandate from the people.
The second is we cannot hold elections now because the conditions are not there. Elections should be held under conditions that guarantee the sovereign right of the people of Zimbabwe to choose their leaders, and those conditions unfortunately do not exist now.
So we are in a dilemma. To come out of the impasse of the GPA and the inclusive Government we need elections, but we need elections that are held under conditions that guarantee free and fair outcomes.
The GPA leaders are deliberately avoiding creating the conditions for free and fair elections because they know if the elections come under free and fair conditions they will lose. So they will hang on as long as they can, so that they can loot and amass while the opportunity stands. We the people of Zimbabwe must demand that (President) Mugabe and (Prime Minister) Tsvangirai and (Professor Welshman) Ncube deliver conditions for free and fair elections so that the citizens can kick them out of office.
FN: If the President was to call for elections today will MKD participate?
SM: I think there will be no elections in Zimbabwe until there are conditions for credible free and fair elections. We will not dignify an incredible election. We will only participate in elections held under conditions that guarantee free and fair outcomes. If (President) Mugabe forces an election he will have a reply of 2008, which will be a non-event.
FN: What are free and fair elections?
SM: The GPA defines it very clearly that we need a new constitution and the elements of the new constitution are defined in the GPA. We need to depoliticise the security system and security services of the country. We need a media that is free including a media commission that is professional.
The electoral commission, key manager of the electoral process, must be beyond reproach. We need resourcing of all these institutions that guarantee free and fair elections. Right now ZEC cannot even put out a bulletin. How can we ensure a free and fair process without resources?
FN: Dr Makoni, you remain the interim president of Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn party without an executive. Your critics are saying the party was stillborn?
SM: We are still building the party Mava-mbo/Kusile/Dawn, to make it a broad-based national political organisation, with strong membership and strong structures.
FN: Still structuring the party since 2008?
SM: I think we want to correct facts first. Mavambo, Kusile Dawn the party was formerly launched on July 1, 2009, so I could not have announced an executive in 2008. When I contested the presidential elections in 2008 I did so as an independent candidate and there were volunteers who supported my campaign as an independent. There were other independent candidates who also stood under our banner in council elections and for Parliament and for Senate.
FN: The MKD party was formed in 2009 and seems to have been quiet save for few messages from its president recently when there is talk of elections. Is MKD not one of those 'election parties', that play spoiler?
SM: I told you we launched the party in 2009 and have been rebuilding. If you go around the suburbs of Harare, to Masvingo and Gweru you will find MKD party structures. We have activities going on there about programmes of our party, and its constitution, some of the policies and principles I summarised about our stance of equality, equity and women participating in nation building.
I know there are certain media organisations that choose to ignore our existence and then come to make allegations that we are resurfacing. We have been around and will continue to be around for very long long time to come. The party is growing.
FN: You left Zanu-PF at a time when you were touted as one of the possible successors to President Mugabe. Do you have any regrets of ever leaving the party? Are there chances of Dr Simba Makoni reuniting with his former comrades in the struggle?
SM: No, no, no! This is history now. It's nearly four years since I left Zanu-PF and that is behind me. It's a party of my history that I am proud to have participated in and made a contribution but I don't live in the past. We were in the struggle in Chimoio, we left there in 1979, Independence came in 1980, and in 2000 we had a multiparty election with new parties joining the Parliament. I left and I don't regret leaving.
FN: But you don't sound convincingly happy.
SM: I am happy that I left and am making my contribution on a new platform that is more forward-looking more even closer to the people and their yearning for freedom, for development and equality and that I am no longer shackled by the stale politics of Zanu-PF. Going back where? What is Zanu-PF? There is nothing to go back to.
FN: During your campaign in 2008 you promised the nation that some Zanu-PF and MDC bigwigs were in support of your decision and would soon follow. Four years down the line now and no one has.
SM: I had an interview with a Herald or Sunday Mail journalist in 2008 and I answered that question. The Herald please let us move to 2012, and let us deal with issues of today. When I announced that I was going to stand for presidency, I did not announce that there were bigwigs going to follow me. What I said then was and I can repeat it now; "There are many people in Zanu-PF who agree with me. At all membership and leadership of Zanu-PF, there are many people who agree with me. Even today there are many people in Zanu-PF who agree with me. There are many people in MDC then and now who agree with me. But there are even more people out there who are not in the MDC or Zanu-PF, who are not in any party, who agree with me. That is the constituency I am targeting. Those people who do not have a political home because they are disgusted with what is being done in Zanu-PF and they are unhappy with what is happening in the MDC. They would like a political home that offers servant leadership, equity and justice, competence, a system that is based on values that realises how important freedom is for each one of us. That's where MKD belongs, with the people.
FN: But how do we know, when they have remained silent?
SM: They are not courageous enough to stand for their views. They are there in the Politburo of Zanu-PF and (President) Mugabe knows it. They are there in the National Executive Council of MDC-T, (PM) Morgan Tsvangirai knows it. They will not come out and join my party because the objectives of being where they are will not be realised in MKD. There are many people in those parties who support what I stood for then and today, but they are cowards to come out.
FN: The GPA is in its third year and has been credited with improving the political and economic situation. What is your evaluation of the inclusive Government?
SM: A dismal failure. In short that is my evaluation of the inclusive Government. The GPA, the agreement itself has merits. If people wanted to implement the visions of the GPA our country wouldn't be where it is today. So the fault is not with the agreement, the fault is with the implementers of the agreement or the non-implementers of the agreement.
SM: I am not bitter about being left out of the GPA or the Government but am sad that people like me who could bring real change are not involved. It's people like me, not really saying, Simba Makoni, but if people like me were in the inclusive Government, Zimbabwe would be nine years ahead of what it is today. That hurts me, that saddens me, that pains me.
In fact I think I am better out of it because I would have more pain trying to work with people who are in Government now. People in the inclusive Government have no sense of public duty, no sense of justice and equity, it's everything about me, inini pachangu ndenga, what do I get. Hospitals have no medicine but people have fleets of (Mitsubishi) Pajeros and (Mercedes Benz) MLS. Government has been buying ministers cars every year for the past three years despite the problems in the health sector.
Just do the numbers, 31 ministers times E Class Mercs, and one four by four twin cab and Land Cruiser or Pajero station wagon. Compare that with what is needed at Harare Hospital to save lives. At the moment all the children who are going to school in Zimbabwe are using books that are supplied by donors through the Education Support Fund. But they can afford to buy themselves motorcars. So I am bitter that people who would make Zimbabwe better are out of the inclusive Government because of greedy people who want to take everything for themselves.
FN: MKD was left out of Copac (constitution making process) so what makes your party relevant to national governance?
SM: Again I am very saddened by the fact that we have decided to make a constitution making process a cash cow for a few people. If we were really committed to making a constitution for Zimbabwe, we could have done in six months with not more than 50 people using all the materials we already had at hand. We should have started with the 1999 draft, ask ourselves why it was rejected and then rectified those areas that caused the draft to be rejected.
New issues that could have emerged since 1999 could have been incorporated. We would have produced a new constitution in three months with 15 people but we created this jamboree so that members of Copac can have allowances of US$75 per day spending six, eight months doing so-called outreach, talking to people knowing exactly what we wanted.
Only recently you heard some of the GPA parties saying the Constitution is going to be negotiated, it's going to be the Kariba Draft, so why did we hoodwink the people into giving their views when we already knew what we wanted? It is deception. So I do not put much track in this process, as currently structured.
Zimbabwe can produce a very good Constitution, more economically, in a shorter space of time, without the antagonism of political party lines at every stage. But I can understand the decision it is selfishness. They are concerned about themselves, yavo inongoti pangu, pangu, iwe neni inhamo yedu tega.
FN: There are disagreements over when we can have elections, as MKD what is your take?
SM: Those who claim to be leaders of the country must make the country ready for the elections. I have two positions on the elections. The first one is that Zimbabwe is long overdue for elections because this inclusive Government is not working. So we need elections that can give us an authority that draws its mandate from the people.
The second is we cannot hold elections now because the conditions are not there. Elections should be held under conditions that guarantee the sovereign right of the people of Zimbabwe to choose their leaders, and those conditions unfortunately do not exist now.
So we are in a dilemma. To come out of the impasse of the GPA and the inclusive Government we need elections, but we need elections that are held under conditions that guarantee free and fair outcomes.
The GPA leaders are deliberately avoiding creating the conditions for free and fair elections because they know if the elections come under free and fair conditions they will lose. So they will hang on as long as they can, so that they can loot and amass while the opportunity stands. We the people of Zimbabwe must demand that (President) Mugabe and (Prime Minister) Tsvangirai and (Professor Welshman) Ncube deliver conditions for free and fair elections so that the citizens can kick them out of office.
FN: If the President was to call for elections today will MKD participate?
SM: I think there will be no elections in Zimbabwe until there are conditions for credible free and fair elections. We will not dignify an incredible election. We will only participate in elections held under conditions that guarantee free and fair outcomes. If (President) Mugabe forces an election he will have a reply of 2008, which will be a non-event.
FN: What are free and fair elections?
SM: The GPA defines it very clearly that we need a new constitution and the elements of the new constitution are defined in the GPA. We need to depoliticise the security system and security services of the country. We need a media that is free including a media commission that is professional.
The electoral commission, key manager of the electoral process, must be beyond reproach. We need resourcing of all these institutions that guarantee free and fair elections. Right now ZEC cannot even put out a bulletin. How can we ensure a free and fair process without resources?
Source - TH
