'Zanu-PF expulsions not kangaroo court decisions'

Zanu-PF has just recently expelled or suspended up to 100 of its members due to a number of reasons but chiefly for being part of a sinister plot to unconstitutionally unseat President Mugabe ahead of Zanu-PF's 6th National People's Congress last December. The punishments imposed en masse come against the backdrop of renewed talk of factionalism in the ruling party. Political Editor Tichaona Zindoga (TZ) caught up with the party's national spokesman Simon Khaya Moyo (SK) to get an explanation of the developments

TZ: Zanu-PF has embarked on a fresh round of suspensions and expulsions of members for various offences. The question in people's minds is, are we yet to see the end of these sanctions against various people in the ruling party and what are the implications of these punishments?

SK: Well, the point is that these are not kangaroo court decisions. The position is that we are a party with a constitution, rules and regulations which apply to every member of the party. Everybody is expected to abide by those rules. Of course, where there is a violation we also have disciplinary committees right from the provinces up to national level. Here, of course, we have the national disciplinary committee chaired by Vice President Phelekezela Mphoko and has got members who include the Secretary for Legal Affairs, Patrick Chinamasa; Secretary for the Commissariat, Kasukuwere; Secretary for Women's Affairs, Dr Grace Mugabe; then the Secretary for Youth, (Pupurai) Togarepi. Those are the members of the National Disciplinary Committee.

When cases are brought to this committee from provinces they look at each case and they deliberate on it and make their recommendations, of course, to the Politburo. So, it is only at that level that decisions, after debate, are taken. And once the Politburo has taken that decision then obviously it applies to that member.

We have had, of course, a number of expulsions relating to the degree of violation of the party's rules and regulations. Some have been expelled and where there has been expulsion and one happens to be a Member of Parliament, Parliament must be advised that the person is no more a member of our party and then a by-election ensues, which is what has been happening.

But for those who came in through proportional representation, the party has the right to replace them with whoever they think is the right person according to the list of those who had presented themselves for the proportional representation.

For those members that have been given suspensions - five-, three- and two-year suspensions - you still remain a member of the party. In other words, you remain a card-carrying member of the party; you have not been expelled, you have just been given that period to amend whatever wrongs you might have committed. You are only prohibited from holding any position in the party for that period.

TZ: After recently announcing the expulsion and suspension of some members, we understand that there are more names facing maybe lighter sanctions. Can you just highlight on that and maybe the names . . . One might ask, why did the party take close to half a year now to punish those associated with the failed attempt to unconstitutionally unseat President Mugabe, which was being masterminded by Joice Mujuru?

SK: Well, these are processes; you don't just jump over a process. It is not an event and therefore there must be investigations which the provinces, I believe, were doing and were giving their reports to the national disciplinary committee. Of course, the Politburo does not sit every time. There are times when the Politburo meetings have taken over a month or so (to be held). So, all these factors come into play here and there. By the time the Politburo meets the processes could have taken longer than what one would have expected. All I can say is that this is a process and you cannot just make it an event.

TZ: Okay. There has been talk especially in the private media and other quarters of heightened factionalism in the party. Now, do you think Zanu-PF is doing any better as a unit than during the pre-Congress period?

SK: Well, I wouldn't know, all I can say is that we as a party our position has always been that we denounce factionalism at any level. Nobody should be a member of a faction within the party. There were a lot of allegations before and everybody, those alleged of being in a faction deny it, but all the same the point is that you cannot have a faction within the party because we have a very straightforward structure in the party.

The head of the party, the leader of the party is the President and we all owe our allegiance to the President in the party; we all owe our allegiance to the constitution of the party and that is the centre of power. You cannot have another centre because that will be a faction. Once you are a faction, as far as we are concerned, you are not a member of the party.

If anybody has a faction, certainly that person is in violation of our constitution. We don't, and I have personally denounced factionalism at every opportunity that I have had, be it at our annual national conferences, at the Politburo and elsewhere, we don't condone, we don't promote factionalism in the party.

Those who are engaged in any factionalism must know that members of Zanu-PF don't belong to a person; they are members of the party. Nobody owns people in Zanu-PF. You are a member of the party and you can't owe allegiance to a person said to be having a faction because that is in violation of our constitution.

So my position is very clear and the position of the leadership is very clear. Those who are said to belong to a faction, they must cease forthwith because that's not what the party is about and I hope we can really get to the bottom of this matter and find out whether really these factions exist. If they do exist, certainly they must stop forthwith because that is not what the party stands for. We don't promote factionalism.

TZ: But one of the favourite riding horses of the private media these days is the allusion to the so-called Generation 40 and Young Turks. How does Zanu-PF view these constructs?

SK: Well, as I said, if it is a faction we don't accept, we don't. No faction is allowed in the party, absolutely not. So anybody who belongs to a faction must know that the time will come once it is proved and action will be taken appropriately. We don't condone that we don't promote factionalism in the party by whatever name.

TZ: Do you think there is a division between the older members and younger members of the party; maybe animosity?

SK: I don't know, I don't know about that. Our party has all ages. I don't know about at one age one believes he is not part of the party or this one; the elders are now not part of the party. We don't have such a provision in our constitution. Once you are a member of the party you are a member of the party and we don't want to categorise ourselves in terms of ages because there is no such provision.

You are a member of the party, you are carrying a party card and that is that. But when we start to categorise membership, that's certainly in violation of the constitution because we have no such provision.

TZ: So you think that the allusion to heightened factionalism is a figment of the imagination?

SK: I only also read about it, I see it in the papers but I don't know what evidence is there but all I can say is we must abide by the constitution of the party and if there is anybody who is entertaining measures outside the party's constitutional provisions then certainly that person must be brought to the disciplinary committee for appropriate action.

We don't want to work, of course, on assumptions we, of course, don't want to work on hearsay. We want to have facts and if they are there surely we have got appropriate structures in the party to deal with such eventualities or such cases.

TZ: On to your position as spokesperson of the party, some quarters have observed, opined say, that you seem to be more inclined towards reacting to the private media claims rather than set your party's own agenda, what is your take on that?

SK: The private, so-called independent Press?

TZ: Yes

SK: Well, to be frank I've always been clear about this myself that journalism is a noble profession from my understanding. We must understand that as a noble profession it is guided by ethics and we expect every journalist to abide by that. There are some quarters which say the pen is mightier than the sword.

Surely it might be, but it doesn't mean the pen must be turned into a sword. And I have noticed that sometimes our reporters in the world of journalism really leave a lot to be desired because there is so much speculation, there is nothing concrete sometimes you can touch on or you can feel.

There has been so much in the papers in the so-called independent Press demeaning some of us. Well, you have to accept that we are a democracy; we are a Free press. Freedom of the Press is guaranteed in our Constitution but people must not take that freedom to be a licence to abuse others. Freedom goes with responsibility. Press freedom goes with responsibility. Our focus should be how best can we unite our people and how best can we develop our country and how best can we really forge forward as a family. But others see it differently. I see it that way myself that we must be there to be promoting unity among ourselves among our people. Promoting peace and of course focusing on development.

We have got this economic blueprint Zim-Asset that should be preoccupying our minds and challenging us as leaders in terms of its implementation. But there is so much time spent on individuals, personalities which really I consider very unfortunate.

TZ: Okay lastly, your new position as the party spokesperson, how have you settled in and, maybe, what you are learning?

SK: I say what the party stands for and I say if we have got any issue raised by any journalist, I say exactly what we stand for as a party. And naturally I don't speak my views when we have the Politburo.

I speak the views expressed by the Politburo the outcomes and all that. So it's a challenge but it's a challenge that one must take soberly. You get insulted, you get chided, you get all sorts of names given to you. Well, you accept that as part of your responsibility in terms of your position.

There is no leader who will not be attacked here and there but let us be objective and if there is anything that one has done wrong, one is not following correctly, advice each other. But these attacks on personalities and all that I find them a bit abhorrent. We must know that leadership goes with responsibility also and we as leaders must also exercise that position. We must be responsible. We must lead by example, lead from the front and we also must not play games. It's not good.

There has been a lot of gossiping a lot of what, even among ourselves and as leaders that is not good leadership. If there is something wrong I have done, it is advisable that those who see that maybe I have gone astray let's call each other and say this could have been done better this way but to call the Press and say so-and-so is like this and so-and-so this . . .

TZ: Didymus Mutasa was on record as saying you were "one of us"?

SK: There is no "one of us" anywhere. You are either Zanu-PF or you are not. If you are not Zanu-PF there is just something else. But if you are Zanu-PF, there is no post-Congress Zanu-PF or pre-Congress Zanu-PF. That must be clear there is no such thing called pre-Congress Zanu-PF and post-Congress Zanu-PF. No!

We are, those of us who believe in fairness and honesty know that one is a member of the party or you are not. You cannot categorise, amputate the party and say it ends here it starts here, no! This is a party that has gone through a lot of challenges?

So anybody who thinks somebody belongs to him or belongs to whom, is totally living in a different world. We belong to one party with one leadership and I would never myself believe that any serious person would want to belong to another person.

If you like to belong to another person why not remain yourself? Are you not a person? So all this is cheap talk and sometimes of course totally exaggerated by some media in order to provoke a situation but certainly some of us remain very clear, very solid and as a spokesman of this party I will continue in this fashion.

TZ: Thank you, Cde.