Opinion / Interviews
'Give farmers title deeds,' says Joshua Malinga
17 Jan 2016 at 04:11hrs | Views
On Wednesday, a senior Zanu-PF member and a beneficiary of the land reform programme, Joshua Teke Malinga addressed members of the Bulawayo Press Club where he spoke on a number of issues including the need for Government to give new farmers title deeds to enable them to get loans from banks to finance their programmes. Sunday News Correspondent Dumisani Sibanda (DS) interviewed Malinga (JM) on the sidelines of the meeting on the issue.
Below are excerpts from the interview:
DS: You spoke about the land reform programme saying it was inevitable, it had to happen and it was a success. However, you said there is still a lot that has to be done in that area. Can you explain what needs to be done on the land reform programme.
JM: Personally, I believe land re-distribution was a legitimate issue and Zanu-PF as the ruling party had a mandate to do it. Even if it had not done it, it was bound to happen because such a situation was not sustainable. So I have no excuses on that. Land is the basis of capitalism. In Zimbabwe here, we have adopted a capitalist system, one way or another. But in England, they practise this Western type of democracy based on capitalism, which excludes other people from owning land. In England, land is owned by the rich people, the Queen and what is called the upper class. In England, people are divided into the upper class, the middle class and the poor or the common class. That type of capitalism we should not copy because it is capitalism without a human face.
DS: So what is capitalism with a human face?
JM: We have enough land to give everybody. All Zimbabweans have a piece of land in their communal areas which were called reserves during the colonial era and you can go on and buy a farm and have a house in town.
DS: Sorry did you say buy a farm? I thought under the land reform programme people were not buying the land but were given the farms.
JM: True, people were not buying farms but given the land, resettled under the communal or villagised model and commercial farm model. But the missing link is that people can't use their land to access capital. What I think should be done is that everybody in this country must be given title deeds.
DS: Even in communal areas where the land is communally owned, there is communal grazing and so on?
JM: That is a style of excluding other people. It is a form of Western capitalism. Who says people in rural areas cannot be given title deeds ? It's their land. Everybody must have land in this country.
DS: What is the problem with the system of having 99-year leases for the farms?
JM: The system of leases is not working. Very few people have got those leases.
DS: But why can those leases not be used?
JM: They are not bankable, to use the language of the banks. They cannot give you loans on the basis of those leases. But as the ruling party we are working towards making them bankable. But I am saying people should be given land. If my father had 40 acres and all his children got an acre each, let's give title deeds so that everybody can go to the bank to ask for loans using the title deeds as a guarantee. Everybody, will then have money.
DS: But will that not present a problem where people who were given land, they did not buy the land, now with those title deeds can sell it?
JM: Yes, I know there are those who say people will sell the land to rich people who will even be richer. We can put regulations to deal with that. In any case we have our chiefs and other traditional leaders like village heads to deal with that. We can stop the white people from buying all the land. There should be regulations. But we cannot have a situation where other people have land while others don't have land. The communal system is a colonial thing.
DS: I believe that you are one of the beneficiaries of the land reform programme. You were given a farm. But we hear that some of you are loaning out that land. That some are so unscrupulous that they are loaning it back to the white commercial farmers who want to use the land. In other words reversing the programme. What's your comment on that?
JM: There is an audit but I don't know whether it has started and I don't know when it will start. That audit will reveal the truth about what is happening. At the moment it's just theory. But after the audit why not take the land from such people and give it to others? After the land audit, something must happen. As the ruling party, we have a vision on this land programme and how far it should go in improving the quality of life of the people. For instance, we allowed the people to invade farms.
DS: To invade?
JM: Just because there was no other method and nobody can tell me what other we could have used, any better method. How long was it going to take to negotiate, negotiate, negotiate until donkeys develop horns? The land was taken by whites from blacks and there was nothing wrong with taking it back. Other people who have three, four, five, six, farms will in this phase, infact everyone would be forced to have one farm. Even if you bought a farm before land reform and you also benefitted from the land reform programme you should choose which one you want so that you remain with one. The third phase is to look at farm sizes. But I am saying people should be given title deeds, let them own the land.
DS: In essence you are saying lack of title deeds has affected production on the farms. So you believe if you have title deeds giving you access to loans, production levels will rise dramatically?
JM:Yes.
DS: But some people have said when the land was re-distributed it was not done in a proper way, looking at need and possession of skills to effectively use the land. You find graduates from agricultural colleges left out for instance.
JM: What are they recommending? It was also a question of political expediency, the willing buyer willing seller system was not working.
DS: In Zanu-PF you are the Secretary for the Disabled and Disadvantaged are you happy with the numbers of the disabled, women and the elderly who got land?
JM: Women, I think in a way, more women benefitted than the disabled and elderly. You must know that the disabled constitute 15 percent of the population, which is about two million people. We need a 15 percent quota for the disabled on land, Government posts and so on.
Below are excerpts from the interview:
DS: You spoke about the land reform programme saying it was inevitable, it had to happen and it was a success. However, you said there is still a lot that has to be done in that area. Can you explain what needs to be done on the land reform programme.
JM: Personally, I believe land re-distribution was a legitimate issue and Zanu-PF as the ruling party had a mandate to do it. Even if it had not done it, it was bound to happen because such a situation was not sustainable. So I have no excuses on that. Land is the basis of capitalism. In Zimbabwe here, we have adopted a capitalist system, one way or another. But in England, they practise this Western type of democracy based on capitalism, which excludes other people from owning land. In England, land is owned by the rich people, the Queen and what is called the upper class. In England, people are divided into the upper class, the middle class and the poor or the common class. That type of capitalism we should not copy because it is capitalism without a human face.
DS: So what is capitalism with a human face?
JM: We have enough land to give everybody. All Zimbabweans have a piece of land in their communal areas which were called reserves during the colonial era and you can go on and buy a farm and have a house in town.
DS: Sorry did you say buy a farm? I thought under the land reform programme people were not buying the land but were given the farms.
JM: True, people were not buying farms but given the land, resettled under the communal or villagised model and commercial farm model. But the missing link is that people can't use their land to access capital. What I think should be done is that everybody in this country must be given title deeds.
DS: Even in communal areas where the land is communally owned, there is communal grazing and so on?
JM: That is a style of excluding other people. It is a form of Western capitalism. Who says people in rural areas cannot be given title deeds ? It's their land. Everybody must have land in this country.
DS: What is the problem with the system of having 99-year leases for the farms?
JM: The system of leases is not working. Very few people have got those leases.
DS: But why can those leases not be used?
JM: They are not bankable, to use the language of the banks. They cannot give you loans on the basis of those leases. But as the ruling party we are working towards making them bankable. But I am saying people should be given land. If my father had 40 acres and all his children got an acre each, let's give title deeds so that everybody can go to the bank to ask for loans using the title deeds as a guarantee. Everybody, will then have money.
JM: Yes, I know there are those who say people will sell the land to rich people who will even be richer. We can put regulations to deal with that. In any case we have our chiefs and other traditional leaders like village heads to deal with that. We can stop the white people from buying all the land. There should be regulations. But we cannot have a situation where other people have land while others don't have land. The communal system is a colonial thing.
DS: I believe that you are one of the beneficiaries of the land reform programme. You were given a farm. But we hear that some of you are loaning out that land. That some are so unscrupulous that they are loaning it back to the white commercial farmers who want to use the land. In other words reversing the programme. What's your comment on that?
JM: There is an audit but I don't know whether it has started and I don't know when it will start. That audit will reveal the truth about what is happening. At the moment it's just theory. But after the audit why not take the land from such people and give it to others? After the land audit, something must happen. As the ruling party, we have a vision on this land programme and how far it should go in improving the quality of life of the people. For instance, we allowed the people to invade farms.
DS: To invade?
JM: Just because there was no other method and nobody can tell me what other we could have used, any better method. How long was it going to take to negotiate, negotiate, negotiate until donkeys develop horns? The land was taken by whites from blacks and there was nothing wrong with taking it back. Other people who have three, four, five, six, farms will in this phase, infact everyone would be forced to have one farm. Even if you bought a farm before land reform and you also benefitted from the land reform programme you should choose which one you want so that you remain with one. The third phase is to look at farm sizes. But I am saying people should be given title deeds, let them own the land.
DS: In essence you are saying lack of title deeds has affected production on the farms. So you believe if you have title deeds giving you access to loans, production levels will rise dramatically?
JM:Yes.
DS: But some people have said when the land was re-distributed it was not done in a proper way, looking at need and possession of skills to effectively use the land. You find graduates from agricultural colleges left out for instance.
JM: What are they recommending? It was also a question of political expediency, the willing buyer willing seller system was not working.
DS: In Zanu-PF you are the Secretary for the Disabled and Disadvantaged are you happy with the numbers of the disabled, women and the elderly who got land?
JM: Women, I think in a way, more women benefitted than the disabled and elderly. You must know that the disabled constitute 15 percent of the population, which is about two million people. We need a 15 percent quota for the disabled on land, Government posts and so on.
Source - sundanews
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