Should men do housework! - Live Discussion

Atimes I fail to understand abanye bantu,lina lento elikhuluma ngayo likhule isenziwa kini,kumbe yikufunda kwenu lokhu. Kuyahamba kulehlule phambili,fine okwalelo langa maybe hayi ukuthi ukwenze kube yiduty yakho. Abelungu yebo ngokwakibo yenzani lokhu elikhule kusenziwa ekhaya. House duties myfoot yi dptmnt yenu bafazi,accept with pride and save yo marriage.

Thank you all for taking part in this discussion. This Live Update has been closed but you can still comment at the bottom.

Hayi bo! lalelani bantu bakiti. There is more to this issue than just being bashed for washing dishes or whatever duties. Men would from time to time voluntarily do chores when they see that their wives are tied up on other duties. By their own volution. But for Tino katsande and the like minded wake up one day and rudely demand that I do the dishes while she does whatever she is doing is wrong. It may result in bashing. I am not saying men should bash their wives. Now we hear Phd students saying chi chinoshamisira kuita murume. My heart bleeds. These learned colluegues should know better that by creation women were created or designed to do certain things/chores while men were designed to do certain chores. You cant break that rule, otherwise there will be chaos and more bashing in these homes. I am not as learned as my freinds. I have done construction work and i know those women who have tried to venture into heavy construction have failed and resigned or changed trades. Thats how we were created and designed. Phd or not, women should do feminine duties while men do masculine duties. If you see your self not comprehending this simple rule, then you may as well quit the Phd program.

having a p.h.d must not change u , sorry . Just be many enough and cal the shots

I`m a guy. if i would be staying alone who would do it for me ? myself. then why cant i continue doing it when i`m now staying with my girlfriend/wife ? some guys are just stupid that we all know.

No period.

If you talk in a stupid way to your husband, they normally want to bash you. If they do not bash you then either they respect you a lot or they are afraid of the consequences otherwise they want to bash you.

@Megawatts. Usada kujustifier uzanga hwako nechi Ph.d in Ngano urikuita.

Ndinoita kana ndichida kwete kutumwa no no end a big NO

@Thunalengane 50/50 does not mean reversal of nature roles, all we saying is wife bashing is a no no, uma eliwule myeke uzosithini isifebe????? jus dont beat her

Ukuncedisana kuqakathekile kakhulu oterwize thina madoda siya tshuna ngcono kulabomama

@Nhlakanipho big up my brother thus a gud a point there. You are a true man of substance It takes a deep minds to think like you ayikhona inswela boya, imigaxa yamadoda abhala amanyala.

If utshayelwe ukuthi indoda ayigeze izitsha akulunganga bekumele ayale but ma utshayelwe ubuwule okanye ukungahloniphi ulayekile lamadoda athi kuyalingwana this 50/50 sh*t is not working at all,if its like that abafazi abalobole amadoda&amadoda kumele siwabone emithi ezale abantwana&ba menstruate,liyanya mani lema Gay ma kunjalo kawavunyelwe,ngamasimba lawo akulamfazi olingana lendoda,Qwete!!!

Here is my situation my self and my wife we are both Ph.d students and we have a daughter. Now tell me if i dont change my daughters diapers, who is suppose to do it, she will also be tired from working in the lab and school. Chi chinoshamisira pakuita murume, Its high time varume we change our attitude and get rid of this male dominance mumba. Batsiranai nemukadzi kuita mabasa mumba saka munoti haanetewo here mukadzi wacho its so sad kuti kune varume vachiri kurova vakadzi... dai iri handzvadzi yako wainzwa sei ichiharaswa so,... bata mwana wevamwe the same way you would want your sister to be treated. this is wrong mumba vanhu batsiranai...

I believe she is not telling the truth,she was beaten for smething else or she was rude in her approach its always dont do this to women and that to women

This question is mainly centred on Tinopona Katsande's situation - there is no better way to put it, Do you think men should do house chores?

You need to rephrase your questions/or topics better!!

Yes men should assist in the house,there is nothing like amaduties omfazi especial in this mmorden world. Before women used to be house wifes but now sesivukela emsebenzini sonke. If that is the case then let her stay home sibone if you will deliever .

@Against satanism but why are u blasting Betty Makoni like that, this woman has done a lot for women. She fights for whats right. lets focus on this issues eye domestic violence and doing hse work pliz

we are not promoting bashing women, but God`s family strures and functions should be followed in our daily life, in God there is nothing like old fashion, but trust and respect whether men or woman we should respect the rule of God.

there is nothing that turns on a woman like a handy and helpful man my dear fellas- absolutley nothing wrong mufunge. Some African men need to get that "akadyiswa' mindset its so 70's........

wife bashing has nothing to do with religion, lets examine this issue from an all encompassing angle

um sory tino nd shame 2 dat boyfrend of yos.only spiritual husbands dstroys wat they claim 2 luv

You see, betty and company are not married. They failed. They are the least qualified to advise on marital issues. There has always been structures in families, these structures were dictated by the almighty. Now you have people like betty who want to question God`s wisdom. No wonder this world is ful of satanism. I used to respect betty a lot when she was said to be championing the rights of the girl child. Now she is the advocate for women who want to walk our streets naked, women who want to reverse God`s family strures and functions. Now with people like Tinopona Katsande, we could be in for a ride. I am even doubting that that is the only reason she was bashed. There is more. Just wait and hear. We did not hear about how she repoted to the police, and so on. This is the work of Satan, tasked with the task of bringing disrepute to the world. Oh mankind, do not be fooled by Satan`s handiwork. Lets respect functional responsibilities as they have always been. Once we respect that , no woman will be bashed, women are being bashed for walking the streets naked, refusing to do what they should ordinarily do. If you look into this matter, It shows that for some time she has been doing the dishes and all and all of a sudden decided to demand that the husband should do the dishes. I do not know for how long these were married but the woman should have stated her conditions for marriage before exchanging the vows.

this is God 's law whether u are learned or you are in the highest office, you have lot of money wifes should be under their husbunds, BUT not to be oppressed, as Jesus is the head of the church so the men is the head of the house , not women to dictate what they want but to discuss gud ideas with their partners

Men should stay men and women should stay women. If your woman wants to turn into a woman, she deserves to be taught the right ways.

INdaba NdabaI dont know why you put something not supposed to be debatable on your LIVE debates today. The LIVE debate you posted on your website, Should men do domestic chores? should be replaced by, Is it not shocking that some men are not doing domestic work? A lot of men I know do domestic work and run these homes better than some women. I dont think this question is fair to all men.Maybe the lazy and crude boys who dont grow up and want to be served for everything like kings will have a field day.Please raise awareness to them that doing domestic chores is something positive and good.

We only hear what the most vocal wants us to believe,haiziyo nyaya yaakaroverwa ,she must have said or done smeting nusty,pamwe muface uyu anotogara achigeza maplates acho.

We only hear what the most vocal wants us to believe,haiziyo nyaya yaakaroverwa ,she must have said or done smeting nusty,pamwe muface uyu anotogara achigeza maplates acho.

Ndonyaya dzinofanira kuiswa pafore front nevanhu vezvigaro sezvanana Mai Betty Makoni kwete zvekuswero pipidzana netunyaya twanaManeta. Why do pple with influence take so long to stand by women going through real issues of abuse ketwe zvaManeta zvekutozvitsvagira..... Welldone for standing my sister woo.. Ngazvipere izvi zvekurovana mudzimba

well gone are the days for weman to work had nowadays weman allso work but ur hausework is still ur juity so if its tomuch for u then get a maid cause for me l will get a gardenboy.

well gone are the days for weman to work had nowadays weman allso work but ur hausework is still ur juity so if its tomuch for u then get a maid cause for me l will get a gardenboy.

the system is now upside down, neither men nor women to blame, Men must do the chores unless you restore the system set by the author of the marital program

Ten Commandments to my son, only inheritance for my son -Poem by Betty Makoni

Only inheritance for my son—Betty Makoni`s ten

commandments to her son-Poem by Betty Makoni
(As a mother of boys my role is to bring up boys who will make
this world a better place for girls and women. It starts with me
changing my son and so I dedicate time to this.)

Son I come to you after deep thoughts
Strong motherly and lasting love
To off route you before you are right off
On one route I dare you not take—Patriarchy
It can so easily swallow you
They say teach your son the righteous way
And here I am to take you the right way for only wise men
Unless I start with you I will not walk the talk
If it means only you living my ten commandments
Then let it be you and only you
At least to know the world has one woman safe
Because of a son with a mother’s commandments can sure be
Only legacy I leave, you my son live it

Millions of churches and organisations
Millions of gender activists and gender organisations
Millions of dollars and days
All spent on gender equality fights
Yet murders and rapes of women and girls soar, claim more
All teachings are girls to look after the men and boys
None teach men and boys care for women and girls
Here, sit here for mother to son workshop that costs only my love
Let me give you dear son a secret gift of life
The only gift I leave you is for you to value the next woman after me
Ten commandments I give today are mother`s commands and compulsory

Commandment 1
Never force a woman into sex—Thou shall not rape
You are not a sex engine or machine
You are just you and your dignity
Once you rape you break her spirit, you scare her to death
You break her delicacy, you invade her womanhood
Learn to ask and be gentle and humble in asking
Be considerate to her and her feelings and fears
Be her small a girl especially, let her grow first
As long she is under age you cannot force a child to be adult
So desire is not love son, it is self ego and selfishness
It is a crime and a serious one too

Commandment 2
Never cheat her—Thou shall not cheat
That way she loses self esteem
She feels unwanted, rejected and forsaken
Lack of self esteem makes a woman cold
No matter how many times you apologise and make peace
Not one single woman forgives or forgets a cheater
You were never born to break women`s hearts dear son
Have one woman, one love, one heart just as much every organ on you is
one or one set
In case you want two women let me put you back into my womb to make
a second set

Commandment 3
Never beat her—Thou shall not beat a woman
A man who inflicts pain into a woman he loves
A man who dares lift even his finger, toe or any part of his body
Wounds a woman not only physically but also emotionally and spiritually
Once you beat her, you beat love—the core and root of who she is
Once you cause injury—The love becomes injured
Make it a daily ritual and routine to kiss and hug
Say I love you and thank you
Use every part of body for love and not hurt
Never make home a war zone

Commandment 4
Never be a slave master—Thou shall not enslave a woman or girl
Slavery was banned hundreds years back son
Don’t bring a practice that makes you head of family but helper of family
Never seek position of bread winner seek partnership in bread winning
In a family everyone who works anywhere is a winner
Don’t bossy and bully a woman or be called titles I never gave you at birth
Titles instil power and fear, fatigue and more fantasy
Be the food maker as much as you are a food eater
Never be served food, serve food
Food being a symbol of peace brings with it peace
Give even more as more blessings come from giving

Commandment 5
Help with household chores-He who eats shall wash dishes
He who eats washes dishes my son
He who wears clothes washes them



 

Home is hygiene and everything must be hygienic
Never you throw away stinking stockings or filthy underwear
Picking up dirty dishes is picking up your dignity
Being a mother is full time job, being a housewife is double shift
Two hands make work lighter
No work for women and no work for men
Work is work son as long as it all works out

Commandment 6
Never prey on the weak and powerless—Thou shall power to be
empowered
The daily inspiration should be men of quality is men of equality
Never you think a woman lesser or your rib
Never you think submission points to love
You submit yourself if even it means the world laughs and you love
Don’t quote any bible or traditional verse that oppresses women or girls
Don`t listen to any musician who sings for oppression of women
Don`t rap songs to incite women as sex objects
Son, manhood does not come because womanhood is weak
Manhood means empowering and being empowered by womanhood
Manhood means being a good man
Manhood means uplifting the weak and powerless

Commandment 7
You shall only have love book-Thou shall not have any other words than love words
The only book I gave you is love book
In it every word is defined and illustrated
Pour it out to her as if today is the last day
Say I love you as from morning to night
Say over phone and post, Facebook it, tweet it and never twist it
Picture it and paint it, flower it and let it flourish and blossom
Look the eyes and lean the shoulders
Hug and harness and never you harass
Love is such a priceless gift

Commandment 8
Never learn from failure—Thou shall learn from success and male role
models
Older men who are failures to build a basic unit like a family not worth your while son
There are role models in their millions too
Learn from their good and you prosper
Never celebrate failure as you will fail more
Be they pastor with loudest sermon or Priest with a collar
Who pray loud by day and oppress hard at night
Be they scot free rapist or one jailed
Be he who is polygamous or one of so called small houses
Be they President or highest order
Be they your favourite singer with two wives on their lap
Or such messy life that calls for mercy ending
As long as treatment is bad for women they are failures

Commandment 9
Never think gender equality in half—Thou shall be equal as in equals
Equality is never in parts son, it is always equals
A man equal to a woman and a boy equal to a girl
A boy is a child and a girl is a child
Once you give something in half you get it back in half
Once you prejudice, you will be prejudged also
Equality brings prosperity and progress
Wheel realignment is meant to balance movement
Fifty and fifty gives a hundred
One man and one woman gives two people and never one and half

Commandment 10
Never you say always Do-You shall do and not talk
The world is full of people talking son, what we are yet to see are doers
Faith with no deeds is dead
This will be your attitude, practice and belief
Never have you insulted me as a mother
Nor treated me unjustly
To the woman you marry do same

The only love to your mother is love for another woman
Is to make sure where men rule women rule also
Love in its equity, equality and totality
Love in action and love as commanded by your mother who saw it all
Do the commandments I command son

the system is now upside down, neither men nor women to blame, Men must do the chores unless you restore the system set by the author of the marital program

Indoda eqotho ngeke itshaye umuntu wesifazane,mina ngabe bekungudadewethu obethwe kanje tjo bengizokhahlela inja.umfazi akabethwa iloba ephambanisile uyatshelwa kahle.

uyamtshaya ngumntanakho, lonke madoda atshaya abafazi liyimgodoyi nxaa, amasende enu ayefanelwe ukunikwa izinja lempisi not you lot

This so called lover is so inhuman. Animals like him understand only one language that is violence. Induku ayakhi umuzi when will he learn!!

Operation gwekwerere

Tinopona Katsande wrote as follows on her Facebook wall today:

On Sunday the 11th of November 2012, I joined an alarming and ever increasing group of women who are victims of GBV in Zimbabwe.I speak to you now with chipped teeth, bruised ribs, swollen face, blood shot eyes, patches of uprooted hair from the pulling and a heavy heart BUT, I will also hasten to say that I write this statement because I’m alive. I’m a survivor but unfortunately that can’t be said for a lot of women. Im not an exception, I have unfortunately become the norm. According to the 2005/6 (Zimbabwe Demographic and health survey) ZDHS nearly 6 in every 10 women surveyed reported having experienced some violence perpetrated against them.

I want to thank everyone who is standing by me during this terrible time but I also ask you to not make it only about Tino.We are on the precipice of the beginning of the 16 days of activism against gender violence. Lets band together and SAY NO TO VIOLENCE. Some people keep telling me not to talk about it. Some said keep it at home and ma”domestic”.Someone even said “Chakafukidza dzimba matenga and I must keep it quiet. I will not keep quiet, I will never keep quiet.

I wont stoop so low as to have chores with someone i paid lobola for!

Ulamanga ubegemin izolo evuthela ivuvuzela wavuvuka umlomo usevika.Le 50 50why indoda i

ingatshaywa ingakhulunywa

I believe she is not telling the truth,she was beaten for smething else or she was rude in her approach

True Love u dont beat up yourz like this watever , Joice is a Celeb munhu we vanhu isu zvinoda kushinga kugara naye coz she alwayz see beta people.Iyi yekukumbirwa ruoko true or false but hasha dzakabvira kare it was just building up..We should learn to marry our type..

tino is not the type of domesticated woman, who could herself been doing chores. she also not the type without a maid. i believe there is a bigger story that transpired. i dnt believe there is a man who wants to intentionally bash a wman, bt all too many times, the woman stabs the man with such words that she can tell pierce right into yo soul. even if she can see that u are now on edge, and can soon burst, she pushes further. have u never heard a woman say "ndoda kutotii undi rove nhasi!" otanga kuku nyongonya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! searching and pushing you for a reaction. mudzimba moda mwero nema shoko please, neku respectana space yeumwe, nema feelings.

I totally disagree with you Itai. ukutshaya wont solve your problems, umuntu wakho uyantunya akuhlukuluze worse ucine uzibophela

To bash iz nt the solution

Ya some woman bafuna ukutshaywa they don't listen especilly umfazi engakhomba ufuna ama50-50,uswazi ngumuti

telling someone you not interested in helping them is much easier than bashing them, it would appear some people have no understanding of their partners. So what if she was dancing with Cricketers???? ndiwo hunhu wake and the boyfriend akamuwana akadaro. Atakura danda rinemasvisve hachache kurumwa nawo

they need to do house chores to help their wives ,not by force if they want

the man is right , ulizanka ujoyce

No problem with asking for help with household chores - if you don't want to help just say no and if your partner "rudely" insists, better to walk out than bash them. Demons can end up taking over, and you'll end up doing something worse such as kuuraya munhu. Always alternative ways to deal with situations. Even if the true story isn't what she's saying - do not physically abuse. No excuse whatsoever, whether you are male or female. Unomukirwa nengozi...

she deserves a beating

Information we are getting is that she got drunk and was making suggestive dances with cricketers that was on a friday. the following day she wokes up arohwa she should tell us what really happened because as far as we know this girl, anonyanya kuzvida too much, regai zvirohwe wakatoitwa zvishoma dai akakurova bhoo kusina all thiz fotos atiri kuona aya

That girl never went to her aunt for advice, tht should never be done to ask a husband to help with house work, she got even than what she had asked for so she should go to the world to want fame out of such stupidity

ocz w cn help each other do hse wrk...e problem is wn e woman demands chete chete, asi hzvirovese munhu izvozvo...

refering to the above mina ngiyakuphinda ngikutshaye okuzwayo you dont tweet your marital squables kutsho ukuthi ulizanka vele lomfazi,to all the women you never dictate chores in the house unless you grown a set of ball

There is nothing wrong with helping each other house hold chores bcz isu vamwe tinotobatsirawo madzimai edu kumba uku. the problem comes when women demand instead of ROMANTICALLY requesting. Zveshuwa ukaita by ginya unodashurwa asi ukakumbira zvakanaka unobatsirwa. how yu present yo issues to your partner matters most. The bible itself says vakadzi zviisei pasi pevarume venyu but kana wave kumanikidza ndiwe watove baba vemushaka, therefore discipline has to be restored. varume venyu havasi vana venyu vamunoswera muchimhanyisa. BE POLITE to your spouse

kana mukadzi uchida izvo tanga wapa gachichi remupfuhwira otherwise panorohwa munhu

No, man and women have roles assigned to them by God, ref; Genesis 3v17, Proverbs 31. I believe its out of love or one’s will for men to help out. I cant expect my wife to do garden chores or wash the car while I am there or vice versa. However, that does not justify beating women, the problem is that we Zimbabweans are embracing too much western culture, equal rights, feminism, and that really intimidates men, there is nothing lyk equal rights, ngiyala.

Ok

@iNdabaNdaba, my apology for that comment i was just kidding, check my actual contribution under the username of Firimoni...plz

So @Zuma are u saying the fact that the woman popota'z she has to be bashed like that

Yeish sis,it's not right 2 refuse 2 help your wife,if she is busy wth something.some believe dat kitchen/house work is 4 woman,dat's wrong what if yr wife fals sick/die,wl u stil wait 4 her?so let's show our ladies some love not treating us lke slaves

yes i think men shud also help out with the chores afta all we are living together and we are doing everything else together so y nt help

Back

Empowered women ahoy..manje chitarisa muromo wava matindindi....yu must know yur postion as a wife...am not talking abt man opressing women but ziva nzvimbo yako samai bhoyi...wamvera...lol

@Zuma how can u say that by just looking at a bashed face like that maybe muromo wake was ok b4 the beating

There's nothing wrong with helping each other thou it has to b polite asking not rude order frm the woman. At the end of the day if u are a couple u should look out fr one another nd helping each other ts also a way of appreciating nd expressing love fr one another.

Kanti yena ubekhangele ngaphi lusisi beze bemutsheye kabuhlungu kangaka engasabaleki

uuuum muromo wake iye Tino wacho, unoratidza munhu anapo pa haruna chaipo. ndoo type inoti kana yopopota inobuda furo kuma sides kemuromo...lol

the car while I am there or vice versa. However, that does not justify beating women, the problem is that we Zimbabweans are embracing too much western culture and feminism, and that really intimidates men.

there's more than meets the eye here,no sane guy can bash the love of his life for asking to be helped with house chores!

Only silly men attack women. Nomatter what she does or says a woman should be treated well. Umfazi katshaywa, lihlazo lelo!

uyabonake uyafa uphekekile lol

Uthelwa ngamanzi kungufana - amafutha!

usaseka Roy

Nyay iri pano haisi yekukukumbira murume kuti abatsire nema dishes, coz ini i dont mind doing them anyway...but makumbiriro...zvichida Tino wacho haana kukumbira but she demanded in the name of equal ryts. manje pakadero chero ini ndingakudashura ini ..aah haiwavo...have yu realised tht the so called women rtys chair ladies/high table are very single moms...manje cant yu see a clear ryting on the wall apa..

ha ha ha ha

usadherera madzimai unodirwa mvura inopisa wakarara. musazvijairira izvi varume am just warning u guys

Man love your wives says the bible a thought educated guys have the real focus of life but shame there are taking hundred years where woman were all most slaves

Well, whatever the case/problem was, that man had no right to beat her up like that. That is just wrong!
I think men should help out as well.

watever the case, he has no right to beat her like that. she is not her daughter

@bigguy the story we have is only from the woman not the man yet

In this case how was she to wash dishes and do the laundry at the same time

annymous user: ulilema i hope u are gay

People are quick to pass judgement.I don't think any man would assault his wife for just asking for help.give us the fulll story,I believe there is more than what we know for now.

not in a million years. whose culture is that?

Could this be down to lobola?

vele ungabona usithi ukhiphe amalobolo ususithi umbhadhelel imali kutsho ukuthi lothando awulalo

nxaaaaa kulibhanxa okuyintombazana lokhu akukhoni kwenza imisebenzi okwayibhadelelwa imali.

@Thando - then how will we know the deference between odlisiweyo longadliswanga

varume vaisaita mabasa emumba mazuva aya vanamai vasingavabetseriwo kutsvaga mari, ikezvino tinovabetsera varume ava kuvaka misha yedu. Tinoenda tese kumabasa todzoka tese manheru saka chii chingashamisira kuti murume ageze ndiro ini ndichiwacha apa ndenge ndapedza futi kubika. Hapana nyaya apa tangai marambidza vakadzi kukubetserai kubhadharira vana school fee.

Man shoula know that women are human not donkeys asking for help is no sin you will all be tired from work all they know is to sit lazily shame to you man owesaba i culture or ukuthi kuzathiwa udlisiwe you dont know love

Gone were the days where most women were house wives now women work and all will be tired from work asking your man to help is no sin so man should no than women are human not donkeys all what they know is to sit and watch tv real a loving man should do something enspecially when the wife is busy shame to you wena owesaba ukuthii bazathi udlisiwe

@Pb

In a heart-wrenching pouring out of her heart this morning, popular ZiFM breakfast host Tinopona Katsande poured her heart out about how she was beaten up this weekend.

This is after she had posted this last night:

I am a victim but I will come out the victor! Tintin been done wrong ..BIG TIME. Pls pray with me and stand by me. It's goin to be rough

Then she added this, this morning

Was beaten up for asking him to help me clean the house by washing the dishes while I did the laundry

Tino, who played Joyce on the popular local soap Studio 263 then posted a picture of herself.

it all depends if uthando lukhona why not help around the house,Yes man can do house work sibili inkinga ingekho though akufanelanga kube yi take -take.mhlana evuke ngo right yaku rite but mhlana evuke ngo left hlukana laye

wat really happened?, can we get all the details then we comment?,

No ways, its funny women always wants man to do this and that one day they will end up praying for men to be pregnant instead of them i tell you. there is nothing like 50/50 - have you ever had of a woman who goes hunting, No because hunting is for men.

Willingy, not a must. No 50-50 in this world, even a baboon can tell the difference between a male and a female human being.

Akafuni umlale ekuseni uyindoda yakhe umshaye kancane umlethe lana

yeah man can do house wrk, bt in this case maybe mukadzi hana kutaura zvakanaka na-mdhara, & it depends ne mood yavo vese....or maybe its not even abt washing dishes ....vakadzi ava !

You must kik her to hell if she dont want to give you what you married her for they think it's 50--50 not to me

Lilema lumama. Yekela bamukarabhe

No its not a must but willingly

.

ngaadashurwe uyu. men must not do housework

only by choice and women should not tell men to do them

@Cleo this can happen to any one Shona or Venda, Ndebele or Suthu

Ezama shona asizengeni

IF THEY WANT ,NOT TO BE ASKED