Welshman Ncube Studio 7 Interview Part 2 of 3

Continuation of the interview between MDC President Professor Welshman Ncube (WN) with Studio 7's Gibbs Dube (GD). Part one click here.

GD: Mhhhhh! So that brings me to this question about Mr Morgan Tsvangirai who has actually been appealing to every person who left the MDC to rejoin the party, what are your views on that issue?

WN: Well, I hear the rhetoric about people coming to a big tent. Those who supposedly left which is in itself a misnomer. My view on it is that you cannot invite people to a big tent, it doesn't matter how big it is as long as it is a rotten tent as long as it is a tent which stinks to high heaven with dictatorship, with violence, with a violation of every thing that we said we stood for against Mugabe it can be as big as you want it, it can contain millions of people its not worthy of the numbers that it has.

It is better to be in a small tent, tent with thoughtful committed democrats who are committed to a complete overhaul of the dictatorship that we have had over the last 34 years of Zimbabwe independence. So I have absolutely no respect, I am absolutely not impressed by the big tent politics which have no conception of what the struggle against Mugabe is.

If you have reduced what should have been indeed a glorious resistance to the Mugabe regime to simply the notion that Mugabe must be removed let's forget what we remove him with, let's forget what we do, let's forget what we manifest ourselves to be as long as we remove Mugabe we will then worry about democracy tomorrow, we will worry about good governance the following day. It just does not make any sense at all.

If you are democrats you must be democrats in words, you must be democrats in deeds you must do the things that you say you are and not behave the opposite. Do not mimic ZANU PF, do not beat your own people, do not be practising dictatorship, do not cling to power otherwise there is no moral high ground you occupy. There is actually no difference you are just on a quest for power for the sake of power without actually the desire, the will, the capacity nor the ability to actually transform the political system from what it is to a system where we will see good governance, where we will see honesty in politics, where we will see integrity and where we will see a group of thoughtful leaders committed to actually delivering a better life to people of Zimbabwe. All you will have is a group of deceptive politicians in quest for power for the sake of itself.

GD: So in short here you are saying there is a lot of dictatorship in the MDC T and maybe you are saying Mr Tsvangirai is a dictator, is it?

WN: I am plainly saying if parties are led by leaders who actually exhibit no difference from Mugabe they actually betray the democratic struggle we become a mirror image of ZANU PF. People have no reason to actually stand up and sacrifice for a leadership which is actually exhibiting nothing better than that which we are seeking to change. That is the point that I am trying to make.

You can have as big a tent as you claim to have if it is a tent which looks like ZANU PF, which smells like ZANU PF it is not worthy of support.

GD: Now turning to what you are saying some people, some critics will say Professor Welshman Ncube's tent is too small to tackle President Mugabe and his party compared to this big tent, what is your reaction to that?

WN: Its better to have a smaller tank, rather a smaller tent fighting the dictatorship diametrically opposed to the dictatorship committed in words and deeds to a politics, to an economic management, to a governance system which will over whole revolutionise the system that has delivered misery to the people of Zimbabwe. Rather than call yourselves big or in fact be big but represent no change at all from that which we seek to change.

In fact, historically, historically there is absolutely nothing wrong with being small. Indeed all revolutionary parties are by definition small because they are the vanguard, they are made up of thoughtful citizens, committed citizens, cohesive citizens who actually bound by a common ideological belief and principles and value and indeed historically the only people who have ever changed the world, who have ever changed country are always a group of thoughtful small in the sense that you mean citizens who actually have come up with a program for change, it is never a mass of thoughtless people who actually have ever changed the world.

GD: Now there are certain people in the MDC T who believe that Professor Ncube destroyed the MDC and they are always aligning you to ZANU PF you know. What do you think about that kind of talk?

WN: And that Gibbs is precisely the point that I make. The moment that you begin to mimic ZANU PF, if you disagree with ZANU PF, you are an agent of white people, you are an agent of imperialists, you are a sell out. All sorts of ugly descriptions are attached to you because you dare say to ZANU PF I do not agree with you. And if you say you are opposed to ZANU PF and the moment other people have a different world view from yours, NO! I do not agree with you then I am a ZANU PF supporter, I am a sellout, I am this and this and that is exactly, exactly what the problem is.

If you are democrats, your first premise, your first premise, is to defend the right of he who thinks differently from you even if you are convinced to your marrow that they are wrong. The moment you start labelling them this or that simply because they disagree with you then you can not be a democrat and that is the fundamental source of differences that we have.

You call me ZANU PF because I dare say to you, you must agree to be bound by collective decisions, you call me ZANU PF because I dare say we have no moral right to challenge ZANU PF, if we ourselves run militias in our parties to beat up those that dare disagree with us that is the crux of the matter.

GD: Professor Ncube, what is the future of Zimbabwean opposition politics. Looking at problems in your party, we have got some defections. Off course we have Malandu Ncube, then we have got other people senior officials that have defected to the MDC T and the MDC T itself has got serious problems, we can not talk of ZAPU because it seems as if they have got more problems than all of you so what is the future of the opposition in Zimbabwe.

WN: In a democratic country Gibbs, in democratic parties people are free and should be free to move from party to party for whatever subjective and objective reasons they might have at a particular time. And, indeed if you find that ideologically if you find that in terms of values and principles you sit uncomfortably, you sit uneasily in a political party you leave and that is what democracy is all about.

So the fact of departure of people in itself far from sometimes weakening parties, it actually strengthens parties. I can tell you without any.....(Inaudible) if you have people like Abednico Bhebhe, Malandu leaving your party, trust me your are much stronger hmmmmm. I dare say to you, I dare say to you, some of the MDC T difficulties is that they embraced people who have no capacity to work with anyone, the people who always be "me, me, me, me" people. And, now they are crying, literally screaming as those people are engaged in destroying their own parties because they have no capacity to actually unify to work with people.

So in itself as a matter of principle, the departure of people who do not fit in terms of value, people who are not team players, people who cannot be led because some of these people think that they must be leaders themselves at all times and that they can never be led. One of the basic premises is if you cannot be a follower you can never be a good leader. so I have no difficulty with all these departures from one party to another.

What is important is that a cadreship, the core cadreship of any political party must be constituted of individuals, leaders, members who cherish the found, the values and the principles of that party. The policies, the things, the glue that binds you together is a common commitment to those values and principles. Its better to be 10 of you and be committed cadres, politically, ideologically than to be a thousand of you who actually do not agree on anything and your common denominator is to say Mugabe must go. You even have no clue what you will do the day after Mugabe is gone because there is nothing that binds you together.

So I think that the future of opposition is bright and I think that as long as democrats, as long as democrats with the same values and principles coalite in one corner they have the capacity to be able to provide a viable alternative organisational skill and all that takes to actually win elections.

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