Zimbabwe struggle - Has Zambia been paid enough?

Over the past two editions, Zambian veteran politician Dr Vernon Mwaanga has been narrating Zimbabwe's liberation struggle from a Zambian point of view.

This week, Dr Mwaanga concludes his narration, revealing why the Zambian government rounded up some Zanu leaders in Lusaka after the assassination of chairman Herbert Chitepo in 1975.

He reveals that the leaders were put under interrogation adding that one of chairman Chitepo's bodyguards, Saddat had to be interrogated more because information pertaining to the assassination was pointing towards him.

After giving so much support to the liberation movements, not only in Zimbabwe but other African countries, does Zambia feel it has been thanked enough? Read on…

MH: In 1974, towards the end, we see Zanu moving its operations out of Zambia to Mozambique. Some Zanla commanders have spoken to say the decision to relocate to Mozambique was taken following frustrations dealing with the Zambian government which seemed to favour Zapu. What is your comment?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, I don't remember any particular incident when they complained that we are being frustrated by the Zambian government. We opened our borders for them and we gave them all the assistance that they needed.

I am sure that you will agree that between Zambia and Zimbabwe there were logistical problems in the sense that our boundaries are divided by a river as opposed to Mozambique. The logistics in terms of Mozambique were much easier. The risks from here were a lot higher than the risks from Mozambique.

So whatever reasons they may have had, they moved there with our blessings and we continued to support them. They continued to have an office here.

MH: But when Zanu moved to Mozambique did you as Zambian government feel relieved?

Dr Mwaanga: No, no. Not really. We just felt that there was now burden sharing in the region and that one of the countries (Mozambique) we had helped liberate was able to assume part of the responsibility.

It was not a sense of relief but a sense of consolidation. We were happy that we had now opened other fronts and it would be easy now to carry out the struggle from another base. The enemy had Mozambique to worry about now. The geography between the border area between Zimbabwe and Mozambique was a lot more favourable for guerrilla activity. So there was no sense of relief but there was burden sharing now.

The pressure against the Smith regime increased and we were happy because of that.

MH: Also during the same time before Zanu moved to Mozambique, there was the Nhari rebellion in Zanu. Newspaper reports from that time show that as Minister of Foreign Affairs, you were very angry with the way this rebellion was handled.

The reports say you actually got angry and called for the arrest of Chitepo. Tell us exactly what happened from your point of view?

Dr Mwaanga: Without going into specifics, there were problems during that Nhari rebellion. There were fights within Zanu, among the cadres. The Zambian government felt this was not necessary. There was no need for cadres to start fighting each other. Our people, the Zambian people, were beginning to question our ability to deal with the situation. They were saying we had lost control of handling the situation. We had to take action to stop it. Some of the measures we took were not pleasant but it was the only way we could deal with the situation.

MH: What were these measures?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, we had to disarm some of the combatants and place some of them under detention for a temporary period just to cool down things. The measures were not pleasant. It was not pleasant to do that but the situation demanded that we act.

We had to act otherwise our people would have lost faith in us. As a government we had to appear to be in control of the situation. All along we had been in control so when these conflicts started to affect peace and security in our country, our people began to grumble. They began to complain and as a government we had to take action.

And I think we dealt with the situation in the best way possible without exaggerating the situation and without letting it get out of the situation. We had to take very strong measures.

MH: Who are some of these Zanu comrades you had to arrest?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, in keeping with the commitment we made at the time, we decided that these people would not be named. We kept the names internally.

MH: But Dr Mwaanga after so many years you still can't lift the confidentiality?

Dr Mwaanga: We made the commitment that we would keep all this confidential. We didn't want to get involved in your local issues.

MH: So you are going to your grave with those names?

Dr Mwaanga: Ohh, yes, definitely. (Laughs) I am sure even if you talk to some of my other colleagues, the response will be the same. They won't give you those names.

MH: Did you actually sit down and agreed that you will go to your graves without revealing the names?

Dr Mwaanga: Yes, we sat down. We sat down and said now and in future, we won't reveal the names and forever thereafter. (Laughs) We didn't think it would be in the best interest of the people of Zimbabwe to mention names. These people still have families.

MH: Ok, now back to my issue. Did you actually call for the arrest of Chitepo?

Dr Mwaanga: We threatened to. He had to show leadership. He was one of the most senior here. He had to show leadership.

Fortunately he did respond. If he had not responded, we would have arrested him for the sake of restoring peace. We would have arrested him even for a temporary period in order to resolve the bigger picture. We were more concerned about the bigger picture not so much the individuals. As the national chairman, he had a duty to stop the conflicts. The problems hinged on internal discipline.

MH: Did you face the same problems from Zapu or Zipra?

Dr Mwaanga: We didn't face such disciplinary problems with Zapu or Zipra. Zapu had strong leadership and because of that we didn't have too many internal problems. We only had social issues which we were able to handle at another level.

The other political party which was very strong here was Swapo from Namibia. Sam Nujoma was a very strong character. We didn't have internal problems with Swapo just like we didn't have problems within the African National Congress. Oliver Tambo was here and he exercised very strong leadership.

MH: So are you saying the Zanu leadership was weak?

Dr Mwaanga: The leadership in Zanu which was based in Zambia was weak. That is what led to all these internal issues. If the leadership had been strong, I don't think we would have had the kind of problems that we faced.

Discipline in political parties is very important. We wanted the Zanu leadership that was based here to discipline its people so that we would not get involved.

We had taken a decision never to get involved unless the issues of security and law and order were under threat.

It wasn't our responsibility to maintain order in the different political parties. It was up to the leadership. All we wanted was that our laws should be obeyed.

One of the decisions we made was that we exempted all liberation movements from paying duty for any equipment that they got. We actually passed a law in Parliament amending the Customs and Exercise Act to exempt them from paying duty. We passed this Act in 1966.

Anything that came into the country for the freedom fighters was to be exempted. You will also be interest to know for example that at the time when we became independent, we still had white officers in the army, in the police and in the security agents.

There were times when cadres from Zanu or Zapu would be arrested carrying arms by our police, the army or the intelligence. They would tell us that we have arrested some terrorists. They would be put in jail. In such cases we would come up with imaginative ways of having them released. Sometimes we even exchanged them for common criminals and we made sure this was never published. We found ways to drop their charges.

We had several of such cases. There were lots of crossings that were taking place. Comrades coming in from Tanzania with arms. Some truckloads of arms would be found. This happened until we decided to set up our own private ways. We came up with a system that was controlled by the Zambian security.

MH: Yeah, I was coming to that. This crisis crossing of so many freedom fighters in your country must have posed quite some security threats. How did you handle this?

Dr Mwaanga: Ohh yes, very serious security threats. We devised ways to make sure these guns were at one place with the exception of a few they would use just in case they were invaded by suspected Smith rebels. These rebels indeed came from time to time.

When they were ready, we then made arrangements for these arms to be handed back once the routes had been identified. The comrades would be given the arms just before crossing into Rhodesia.

It was quite a serious issue to have so many arms circulating around but we found a way of dealing with that making sure that we found safe places where we could store the arms. They were only released when it was time to cross into Rhodesia, Namibia, South Africa, Botswana and so on. We made the determination of the time to give them the arms.

MH: On 18 March 1975, Herbert Chitepo was assassinated in a car bomb. Earlier on you spoke about the incident he came and informed you that his life was in danger. As he spoke to you a few hours before his death, did he show genuine fear?

Dr Mwaanga: Yes, yes. He showed genuine fear. He appeared very afraid. Some of the people who had escorted him to my office, one of them at least, must have been someone who he didn't view in very favourable terms. So to avoid all two of them, I told him to come and see me in my office alone. That was how high the levels of tension and suspicion were. He appeared genuinely afraid. When I looked into his eyes I could see that he was really concerned and I said to him are you sure you don't want us to give you security right now? I can phone the Inspector General of Police to give you security. He said, no, no let me see how the situation goes.

He said tomorrow I will come back and tell you if I need security.

MH: How did he leave your office?

Dr Mwaanga: He left with these two guys he came with. They drove to Chilenje South where he was staying.

MH: On hearing that Chitepo had been assassinated…

Dr Mwaanga: It was a VW Wagon I remember that very well.

MH: Now, looking back today and with what he told you before he was assassinated, who would you say killed Chitepo?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, it's a combination of factors. Either the internal wrangle in Zanu got out of hand because he seemed to be afraid of the internal differences, that there were people from within Zanu who were threatening his life. Or it could have been the work of the Smith regime.

This was a bomb which was planted under his car at his house which exploded and killed him. A number of investigations have been conducted and I think you have seen some of the theories that have been suggested.

MH: And which theory do you think is true or is closer to the truth?

Dr Mwaanga: I don't really know myself. I wouldn't say. (Laughs) I have always been reluctant in my life and even in my political life to apportion blame.

MH: But it's very possible that due to the internal fights, the enemy could have taken advantage of that?

Dr Mwaanga: Yes, that is possible. Very possible and that was the danger when you had internal problems. I told you earlier that Smith agents had infiltrated the party Zanu to some degree. You leave yourself open to infiltration by outsiders. The danger of that happening was always present.

MH: How did the death of Chitepo affect the relations between the Zanu and the Zambian government?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, I don't think it affected the relations that much because really, what could we have done? We offered everything that we could.

MH: At his house, the house of such an important and senior Zanu official, wasn't there security provided by the Zambian government?

Dr Mwaanga: What normally happened was that he had some Zanu security working with our security services to protect him. As much as possible, the Zanu security was responsible but if they needed assistance from the Zambian security, that would also be made available.

MH: I am asking this because when I spoke to some Zanla commanders they said a few metres away from Chitepo's house there was a Zambian police post?

Dr Mwaanga: There was a police post in the township. In every township there were police posts. Indeed he was not leaving very far from this police post.

It was a police post which was set up there essentially just to deal with the interests of the population in that township.

MH: After the death of Chitepo, the Zambian government went on to round up some Zanu leaders in Zambia.

Dr Mwaanga: Suspects at that time and those who were involved in this conflict. It was a way of trying to find out exactly what was going on. They were not just rounded up and put away. They were interrogated to find out what was going on.

Why levels of indiscipline within Zanu had deteriorated to that extent. That was the whole purpose of rounding up the leaders.

MH: Some people, especially from Zanu say the Zambian government overreacted?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, they are entitled to their opinions but we had a duty as Zambian government which they didn't have. We had a duty to maintain law and order in our country. We were elected by the people of this country to maintain law and order. And we could not be seen to be sacrificing law and order at the expense of supporting the liberation struggle.

While supporting the liberation struggle, we had made it clear that they had to obey the laws of the country.

MH: Don't you think by rounding these Zanu leaders, you were already apportioning blame?

Dr Mwaanga: The problems were going on within Zanu. What could we have done? Could we have gone to round up Zapu leaders who were not involved in the Zanu wrangles? That would not have been appropriate.

These wrangles were confined to Zanu.

MH: If this death had been caused by the Rhodesian agents, why would you round up the Zanu leaders?

Dr Mwaanga: When a crime occurs which involve death, you have to investigate every possible angle. Every government does that. You are not sure what has happened. The only way you can establish the facts is by talking to people who may have information leading up to that death.

You see, that death shocked up. We didn't think we could have a senior person from Zanu being assassinated in our country. That brought a lot of pain to us.

MH: As these comrades were rounded up and interrogated, was there another parallel process to investigate whether this could have been caused by the Smith regime?

Dr Mwaanga: Ooohh yes, every angle was investigated. The military, the intelligence, the police, and the criminal investigations department – we mobilised all the resources at our disposal to carry out the investigation into this matter.

MH: When the Zanu leaders were detained, the liberation struggle according to some Zanla commanders was put on hold.

Dr Mwaanga: No, it didn't. The people who were detained, it's not as if it was hundreds of people, it was just a few people.

MH: Few but very crucial in the execution of the liberation struggle. I have spoken with one of the comrades, Saddat who was one of chairman Chitepo's bodyguards who survived that bomb blast. He complains bitterly against the Zambian government. He says he was tortured in excruciating ways. He has no kind words for your government.

Dr Mwaanga: Well, he was regarded as a suspect. Information was leading up to him and because of that they wanted him to agree to certain things which had occurred. The police use these methods in many countries including Zimbabwe.

MH: He actually used the words you are using now saying "they wanted me to agree to things that I hadn't done."

Dr Mwaanga: Well, we also know that a lot of these people who are trained, they are trained never to disclose anything. Even if they are tortured and even if they undergo rough interrogation, they don't admit to anything. Our police and intelligence system knew that.

We have a very professional force and they know exactly what kind of trained these people had been through.

MH: When you say information was leading to Saddat, what exactly do you mean?

Dr Mwaanga: The information was that he knew something about it which he was not telling the authorities. It's very important to investigate all the facts even if it meant few people had to be inconvenienced otherwise the investigation would not have been completed.

MH: The word inconvenienced in the context you are using it, what exactly does it mean? Does it mean torture?

Dr Mwaanga: No, no. It means being inconvenienced. Security forces use different methods even in Zimbabwe to extract information from suspects.

Especially suspects they believe know something and not saying anything.

MH: But even some of the leaders who were arrested, they say they were also tortured?

Dr Mwaanga: That's possible. I don't know the details how they were treated because the police was handling that. I don't know of anyone, a murder suspect who has been treated well anywhere in the world.

MH: When you look back now, would you say the Zambian government handled that situation well?

Dr Mwaanga: Yes. When I look back now, we had no alternative but to do what we did. We had to be seen to be getting to the bottom of exactly what happened.

We also had a responsibility not only to Zanu and the people of Zimbabwe, but to Africa as well. The whole of Africa was looking at us to see what we were going to do. We had no alternative but to do what we did. There are always casualties somewhere along the line. In every struggle there are casualties. I don't want to tell you what some of the parties, including Zanla and Zipra forces did to some of their own comrades. I wouldn't want to tell you that because what they did is far worse than anything you can ever imagine.

There are bound to be casualties in any struggle. It's the price that organisations pay.

MH: This information which you are saying was pointing to Saddat, where was it coming from?

Dr Mwaanga: It was coming from within Zanu.

MH: Then there was the Commission of Inquiry that was set up to investigate the death.

Dr Mwaanga: Its report was made public as you know.

MH: I know. Do you stand by the contents of that report up to this day?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, I was not involved in the investigations and by then I had moved on to other issues so I cannot vouch for the report.

MH: From your point of view, how did the death of Chitepo affect Zanu?

Dr Mwaanga: I don't know to what extent it affected the party in Zambia. I wouldn't think it affected the struggle in any significant way because freedom fighters kept crossing into Rhodesia. Even the crossing from Mozambique continued.

So I wouldn't say it affected the internal operations of Zanu in any significant way. Our statistics show that nothing really stopped.

MH: Did you at some point as the Zambian government support Zapu and Zanu financially?

Dr Mwaanga: We gave them money. The budget of the director of intelligence catered for that. We used part of this money to finance the liberation movements. Even buying houses for the leaders of the liberation movements and paying rentals for some houses. This was coming from the Zambian tax payers. This was our commitment to the struggle. The Liberation Committee gave them a budget but it was never adequate.

MH: We understand that before the Zanu and Zapu leaders who were in detention in Rhodesia were released in 1975, the Zambian government had organised a secret meeting which involved the Rhodesian and South African leaders. Tell us more about this meeting.

Dr Mwaanga: Yes, we sent our officials to Rhodesia to bring the Zanu and Zapu leaders. We brought the leaders and when they got to Lusaka, they were flown to State House by helicopter. Some of the leaders of Zapu and Zanu in Zambia at that time didn't even know that their leaders were in Zambia. They only got to know about it when they walked into the venue of the meeting. At that same meeting we had the leaders of Rhodesia and South Africa.

MH: Why the secrecy?

Dr Mwaanga: Its state craft. It would not have been helpful to let the leaders know. The information would have leaked. We knew that some of them had been infiltrated and we didn't want them to leak the information.

We had given an undertaking to both the Rhodesians and the South Africans that we would not leak the information. We kept our word.

The art of state craft is complicated. We had to honour what we had promised. Most Zanu and Zapu leaders in Zambia only saw the leaders when they were leaving going back to their respective prisons.

After about two weeks, that's when Smith announced officially that the leaders were being released. But they already had been here to discuss the details about their release.

MH: You really had to play a delicate balancing act?

Dr Mwaanga: Very, very. We didn't want these missions to fail and for the missions to be a success, we had to have certain discipline. Even within the Zambian government, this information is highly guarded. Many of our senior ministers didn't know. That is how to conduct state craft. This was in the best interest of everyone concerned.

MH: In 1978, the Rhodesian forces crossed into Zambia attacking some Zapu bases near Lusaka. Why didn't you as a government fight back?

Dr Mwaanga: If you talk to our military, they will give you their story, but from a political point of view, we didn't want an escalation of the war situation. I remember when they attacked a number of these camps they were so daring that we had to evacuate people from these camps to bring them to the Rhodesian university. We used all means of transport to carry even villagers to bring them to Lusaka. We had to mobilise doctors from all over the country to treat the wounded people.

We went on radio asking our people to donate blood and I am happy to tell you that hundreds of Zambians queued to donate blood. That was how far our people were prepared to assist the armed struggle. Our people supported the struggle because we explained to them.

Without the support of the Zambian people we would not have been able to achieve what we achieved. I see many people thanking the Zambian government but the people who really deserve to be thanked are the Zambian people. They are the ones who sacrificed the most. There has to be a special place in history for them with regards to their contribution to the liberation struggle.

MH: From the way you are talking, it's clear that the people of Zambia sacrificed a lot. Many Zambians died while others were injured. On its part, the Zambian government also made lots of sacrifices. This entire sacrifice do you sometimes regret?

Dr Mwaanga: Not at all. At no time did we ever regret that decision. Even when our power installations were blown up, bridges were blown up, our people injured and killed, we said this is part of the price we had to pay to liberate our neighbours.

You see, each time the Rhodesians bombed a bridge and killed our people, they renewed our determination to do even do more to get rid of them. No price was too high for us.

MH: When elections were later held in Zimbabwe, some reports say the Zambian government was not happy with the outcome as they thought Zapu would win. What is your comment?

Dr Mwaanga: I don't think that's true. The Zambian government took a realistic position because we had made our own assessment. You probably know that we had observers before, during and after the elections. They made assessments and told us what was going on. These observers had warned the Zambian government that the elections would be won by Zanu. That victory of Zanu came as no surprise to us. We were expecting it but we also felt that within that victory, there had to be room where the two parties could find a way of working together.

MH: If you were fine with the results, why did it take President Kaunda almost two years to visit a free Zimbabwe after so much sacrifice?

Dr Mwaanga: Well, to visit Zimbabwe, you had to be invited. Leaders don't just get up and say I am going to visit this or that country. They have to be invited.

You can't just wake up and say I am coming to visit. We also realised that the leaders in Zimbabwe needed time to settle down and get organised. There was no ill-feeling from the Zambian government. No.

MH: Do you think Zambia has been thanked enough for the role it played in the liberation of not only Zimbabwe but many other African countries?

Dr Mwaanga: Let me put it this way, in many parts of Zambia I have been to. I have been asked that same question. Even at some Zambian universities. They ask me – why did we support the liberation struggle of these many African countries? They ask me, have we been thanked enough? My explanation has been that we did not do it because we wanted to be thanked. We did it out of principle because we were committed to the liberation of Africa. The issue of being thanked, the issue of benefits does not even arise at all.

We were supporting the liberation struggle so that when the countries are free they would thank us. We did it because we wanted to see them free.

Now that the veteran Zambian politician, Dr Mwaanga has put so many controversial issues into perspective, next week we bring you the interview we had with one of Zambia's highly decorated military strategists who was in the thick of things during the liberation struggle working with commanders from Zanu and Zapu. Don't miss your copy of The Sunday Mail as Zambia narrates Zimbabwe's liberation struggle from a military point of view.